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Over on Neil's "Living With War" blog, he's started collecting what he calls The Great Debate.
by Thrasher @ PermaLink: 5/11/2006 03:55:00 PM
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Another Line in the field of Time said...
I think it's cool that he post both sides of the story, both supporting and bashing him. I half like the new album and also dislike it. I like some of the stuff in it (although I do not believe we should impeach the president) but I do think we should get out of Iraq.
I agree though with some of the "Cons" on his page. It's not Neils President to impeach. It's the American citizens President.
Don't get me wrong now I am a huge Rustie and am going to see him three times on his CSNY tour. But I don't think it's his call to tell us what to do with our President.
said...
He's paid more taxes than most, his family is american , just because he claims his Canadian roots rather than seek citizenship here in the USA , doesn't mean he shouldn't have a say, Bush by many measures has done has more to damage this great country than any president in recent history. Iraq was not the war on terror! Impeachment needs to include cheney as well.
said...
The US has military bases all over the world (are there any RAF bases in America?), it sicks it's nose and fingers in just about EVERYONE else's business--a form of World Domination perhaps--and a citizen of Canada expresses his opinion about what goes on here...so what?
said...
We have bases because of NATO and we protect those countries that AGREE to have our bases there.
The US does not put bases where countries object. They are on OUR territory OR they want us there.
You might try a little research next time.
Sam
haahnster said...
OK, now we're arguing about the location of US military bases? Sweet. I think we should stipulate that US military bases are placed in countries that give agreement for that placement.
But, that means we also need to stipulate that the decisions made by the US, particularly the decision to invade another sovereign nation (rightly or wrongly), affects more than just the US and the nation invaded. In fact, US decisions, of all types, tend to have a tremendous geopolitical impact...affecting nearly the entire planet. We're not talking about a newly-formed republic in the Balkans choosing the colors for its flag. We're talking about the lone remaining superpower on Earth deciding to use military force.
Let's not confuse Neil Young's right to speak his mind, as a concerned citizen of the WORLD (and a US resident) with whether or not his words carry any legal impact. Obviously, only the US Congress can formally move to impeach the US President, and it is up to the US government to ultimately determine when to remove its troops. But, Neil's status as a Canadian citizen does not diminish his ability to comment on world politics.
It's a distraction...a tactic designed to prevent discussion of the underlying issues. Those issues are real, regardless of the citizenship of the one who raised them.
said...
I agree.
We are the most powerful Nation in the world, of course our decisions have a cause and effect.
Neil can speak his mind any way he likes. Right or Wrong. In this case, his voice is not based on facts, but rhetoric from people like Michael Moore, who does NOT create documentaries, only the deception of a documentary, much of which has been proven blatant lies.
Sam
haahnster said...
Sam,
I cannot speak for Neil as to what Michael Moore's relative influence has been on his (Neil's) opinions. Regardless, Neil is 60 years old, and appears to be a relatively thoughtful person. I am fairly certain he is taking ownership of his own opinions, and will not be hiding behind Michael Moore. Although, of course, if they are in the same place, Neil *could* hide behind Michael Moore, because Michael Moore is HUGE! But, that's neither here nor there. Neil did license the use of "Rockin' In The Free World" at the end of Fahrenheit 9/11, so bringing up Michael Moore is not completely out of bounds.
I just wanted to make sure we moved beyond the "Neil can't say this stuff because he's a Canadian." It doesn't make sense. People should feel free to argue whichever side of the issues that they like, and no one should avoid the issues by saying, "He's just a Canadian."
Another Line in the field of Time said...
I agree with you haah. But I was just saying in the song he says lets impeach "our" President. It's not his President to impeach seeing as hes from Canada. I don't think we should silence his opinion because of his nationality. It's arguable though, I mean in a way it is his President to since he lives here and pays taxes and all. But in a way it's not because he isn't an American. Hmmm, I don't know to much to think through. None the less his voice should be heard.
haahnster said...
Does he say "our" President? I cannot listen right now. I can only go by the printed lyrics, as they were originally scrolled on Neil's website.
I see "the President" each time. He does refer to "our country" (Neil resides here legally), "our money" (Neil pays a shitload in taxes), "our men", "our computers and telephones", etc.
So, even though I don't think it greatly affects the argument, it also appears to be a moot point.
Again, that's how Neil *wrote* it...I can't verify how he *sang* it right now.
Hayo said...
Yeah, its "the president", not "our president".
I am having alot of fun reading the cons, these guys really come up with hillarous reasons why this would be a bad album. "He is Canadian" and "Was Young not paying attention during the 2004 presidential election" are my favorites.
said...
sam and haahnster- you're right I should do more research...You don't suppose the US bullied anybody into allowing us to have a military base in their country...No "we" wouldn't do that, would "we" ?
ASG
said...
Nope.
haahnster said...
ASG,
You are free to research as you please. By the way, that was Sam's advice to you, not mine. If you actually read my posts, I think you would see I'm in general agreement with you regarding Neil's right to speak his mind.
Neil (the subject of "Neil Young News") has chosen many issues to address directly. They include potential impeachment of the POTUS, ending the war in Iraq, the extent to which we are manipulated by advertisement (he really seems to dislike pharmaceutical ads), etc.
If you prefer to dwell on the placement of US military bases throughout the world, go for it. I must've misunderstood. I thought you were using that as justification for Neil to address the issues he chose to address, and then Sam refuted your statement. I just called for a move beyond the military base issue, which seemed to me to be merely a distraction from what Neil was saying.
Do we all remember Neil (as in "Neil Young News")?
said...
Sorry, but I have to pick up on the "US hasn't bullied anyone into letting them build bases" because it has - with the shameful collusion of the British government.
40 years ago the US set up a huge military base on Diego Garcia (one of the Chagos Islands in the Indian Ocean). Part of the deal with the UK government was that all 1500 Chagos Islanders were forcibly "relocated" to Mauritius.
After a legal battle that has lasted for over 30 years the High Court in London has ruled that the decision of the British government to bow to American pressure and exile an entire population from their homeland was repugnant and contrary to international law.
Paul (Liverpool}
said...
trying hard to be succint...the US has been crowing for 60 years about defeating Hitler--I believe it was the Russians who got to Berlin first...ancient history I know...the current administration and to a lesser extent the one before it have tried to force their moral code on the rest of us,but BJs in the Oval office are ok, even if the "giver" is not the President's wife...and here in the DC suburbs kids have been known to kill each other to get that iPod...And I keep hearing "USA is Number One!" How BAD is Number Two, and who is it? Canada?
Ranting again, I'm sorry...Because so much of what we do affects the rest of the World,(IMHO) EVERYBODY has a right to comment on it...Even Canadian rock stars...
said...
back on topic, sorta--does anyone think it's kinda weird that CSNY is touring behind a Neil Young album?
ASG
said...
I am about Neil's age, and I have dual citizenship - US and Canadian. This crap about Neil's not having a right to speak out on issues important to him (and many of us) because he is not a US citizen is ridiculous. I first left the US - where I was born - during the Viet Nam war. No, I was not a draft dodger. But I applaud Canada's acceptance of draft dodgers. It takes a lot of courage to leave your country and all your family and friends because of what you believe (for example, not killing other people, especially citizens, who only want to live their own lives). Now the US is doing the same thing in Irag, and bullying other countries to go along with it. Neil is one of the few public figures from years ago who is still a vibrant voice, and is true to his convictions.
said...
I am about Neil's age, and I have dual citizenship - US and Canadian. This crap about Neil's not having a right to speak out on issues important to him (and many of us) because he is not a US citizen is ridiculous. I first left the US - where I was born - dudring the Viet Nam war. No, I was not a draft dodger. But I applaud Canada's acceptance of draft dodgers. It takes a lot of courage to leave your country and all your family and friends because of what you believe (for example, not killing other people, especially citizens, who only want to live their own lives. Now the US is doing the same thing in Irag, and bullying other countries to go along with it. Neil is one of the few public figures from years ago who is still a vibrant voice, and is true to his convictions.
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