A news blog for Neil Young fans from Thrasher's Wheat with concert and album updates, reviews, analysis, and other Rock & Roll ramblings. Separating the wheat from the chaff since 1996.
Often, we've found ourselves trying to explain Neil Young's music to others with varying degrees of success. In the end, we find that his music isn't really something that can be explained.
While we've expended quite a few words on this blog making an attempt, it really is the stories of others which transcend the gap much better.
We would think that for most Neil Young fans, this weekend represented somewhat of a breakout.
Without getting too bogged down with "what does it all mean?", it just seems self evident and we wonder why we even bother to point out the obvious. But -- clearly -- after browsing reviews and comments, it still seems as if Neil's career remains an enigma for so many.
One would think that simply scrolling through the list of bands performing to honor Neil Young as the 2010 MusiCares Person Of The Year, would be sufficient. Wilco's Jeff Tweedy said:
"He's right up there in terms of a constant in my musical life as an influence and as a mentor. He's kind of just a force of nature. And I take him for granted sometimes like I take the sun for granted ... I'm really happy the sun comes up every day and I'm happy Neil Young keeps making records."
Year after year after year, we've have blogged on the injustice of the Grammy Awards handed out by industry elites, so none of any of this should come as a surprise to anyone.
All I can say that if the Grammy's, after 50 years of Neil rockin the rock n' roll industry, can only manage to give him a grammy for the artwork on his box set, it shows that the whole thing is a ridiculous farce ...
I actually agree that giving him a grammy now for the art on the box set is insulting to him as an artist and at the same time it demeans the whole Grammys institution ... I mean, how can people like Taylor Swift (no disrespect meant to her or her work) or Beyonce walk away with an armload of awards, and this kind of thing has been happening for literally years and decades, and a true authentic artist like Neil has created tens of albums and hundreds of songs of all flavors, and genre's, Jeez he's probably created a few genere's in the process and they can't come up with one measly award for his MUSIC??
Sorry, its a joke, its ridiculous, you'll rarely see me ranting like this, but its preposterous, and it proves the whole Grammys thing is bankrupt, its bogus, its fake, its pretentious, its political ... otherwise its totally unexplainable ...
Neil is a class act to show up and receive the art award ... he's a gracious person who doesn't need their false, pretentious accolades, but the whole thing when you think of it is so ridiculous ya can't do much more than call it out ...
ten years from now these grammy winners and their carefully manicured songs will be long forgotten and Neil and his substantive music will live on, aging gracefully as always...
Neil, Long May You Run!! You truly set the real standard.
Oh come on, people, they deserve the award for such great art direction. The artistry is awesome. I agree that Neil deserves a Grammy for his music, and doesn't get half the overall recognition he deserves, but that shouldn't take anything away from the artists who did such a fine job creating the packaging for the Archives.
It's beautiful.
What y'all need to understand is that mainstream people in our society and the music industry aren't looking for creativity or the quality of personal expression, or your ability to channel the universe in music.
They are much more shallow than that. The people want what's sold to them, they want to be part of the popular crowd, they aren't interested in identifying personally with a song in a profound, emotional way.
They far outnumber the people who enjoy music because it moves them or titillates their minds, because of how it effects them personally, both emotionally and intellectually.
The music industry, by-and-large, plays to this tendency. It releases shallow garbage, people buy it and pretend they like it in order to satisfy their need to be accepted. This is mainstream American pop culture we're talking about here, not the land of smart, thoughtful, multidimensional individuals.
So obviously the chances of Neil Young winning a Grammy are much, much slimmer than Taylor Swift, even though he writes better music. Neil writes better music than almost anyone. It's not about good music - it's about popularity. It's about who sold the most albums because they were aggressively marketed by the industry to the shallow mainstream cult of popularity.
I'd be happy if Neil Young did get the recognition he deserved, but Neil isn't after recognition (thank GOD, because his music wouldn't be half as good as it is), and he doesn't need it, so who really cares?
In some sense it might even be a travesty to award him a Grammy, considering that winning one basically indicates that you're simplistic and derivative enough to easily market to sheep.
And the always thought provoking ranting of Bob Lefsetz:
I saw the Buffalo Springfield. In those days, there were no sponsors. The Fortune 500 ran. Music was dangerous. Neil Young knows the truth, that these companies themselves are dangerous. And that an artist has to march forward and explore unencumbered. Hell, he held up a sign during the show telling the performers to "Just do what you want to do. Don’t listen to anyone else." That’s the key. To go on your own journey. Not the one people want you to. Hell, did you read all the negative reviews of "Catcher In The Rye" in the Salinger obits? Even the "New York Times" panned it. Unfortunately, the blowback contributed to Salinger’s pullback from society. We lost out, because the powers-that-be needed to tear him down, make him their size.
Thank god Neil Young never succumbed to this. He’s the poster boy for doing it your own way. And that’s why CSN’s business blows up when he performs with them, and he can go out solo to great business and the rest of the players cannot. Because we believe… That Neil Young is giving his all.
Friday night Wilco gave their all. And that’s why their fans believe in them just like oldsters believe in Mr. Young. Punch the clock and people know. Sing from the heart, take your music seriously and the audience knows. Jeff Tweedy wasn’t distracted by looking at the teleprompter, the words were embedded deep inside, just like they are in us.
Grammy weekend. Whatever your thoughts are about the "music industry", it was a time to celebrate. A well deserved celebration for Neil and his friends, at that.
Neil Portnow, president of the National Academy of Recording Arts and Sciences and Neil Young
Winterlong
Hi Thrasher, thanks for the note. Where are you based?
Quite appropriate for your circumstances Thrasher. Here in NY we generally "dig it" when the storms come. Brings some peaceful quiet sometimes. You seem to be where I belong..............
I think the Thrashers are near the White House somewheres.
OTOH, I'm out in Maryland and every house is a white. About 3 feet deep too.
Burn off all the fog And let the sun through to the snow Let me see your face again Before I have to go.
lookout jose
Hi Thrasher and Thrashette, I thought about you a couple of times when I saw the news about the snowstorm. Hope everything will soon be back to normal for you and your family.
Love, Liza
Brace yourself and your loved ones. We're in for some real humdinger arctic winds ...
I`ve been watching the news and wondering about Thrasher and the Thrasher household, as well as everyone else snowed in by "snowmaggedon".
Good luck!
Love the choice of song Thrasher!
Luv and good wishes from the UK, Jill
and we (Md/DC/Va) are gonna get hit again...and I just got my car out today...F**K !!!
asg
Regarding the great neil photo, i believe that is from 1970.
Understanding Neil Young's Music
A very nice story! One we all could (or if not, should) be able to relate to on some level. Love makes the world go round....it really does. Everyone has these stories- very personal, meaningful, little anecdotes about their lives and its nice to write them and read them. I have a few where Neil figures in big time and I've never met the man. Magic happens all the time- sometimes its the most obvious thing in the world and hits you like a ton of bricks and sometimes it needs to be pointed out to us. I'm extremely proud to be such a big Neil fan as there is no better soundtrack to my life that I can think of. Magic tends to happen when Neil's Music is involved. My wife gave birth to our first child last Wednesday (talk about a magical life changing event!) and I love that fact that my daughter will grow up listening to Neil Young (mostly), Bob Dylan, the Beatles, CSN, etc. She may grow up to hate my music (as children tend and maybe should do) but I think she'll always have a soft spot for Neil because of my passion for the music. We'll see. Anyway-I'm rambling- I learned a lot about love this week and I enjoyed this story. Neil is music for the heart and soul... really! If you're a fan you know. Sometimes its hard for your brain to understand why you like or love something or someone but in your heart and soul, you just know. That's like Neil's music- ya just feel it,ya just know. I'll never understand why everyone doesn't love the guy.
it IS a lovely story...but I don't think anybody should be obligated to explain WHY they like anything, especially ART...if you can explain why ya like something , fine...if ya can't that's ok with me...is that so wrong?
asg
Why am I not surprised. i can so relate to your story also!
That's exactly what Neil's music can do...inspire,indulge, relate, reminiss and unite 2 people together in harmonic bliss and unison.
I can always remember when I was first going with my (now) wife, when I was 20( I am now 55)..
..already 5 or so years into Neil, I could not wait to introduce and impress my new date to my first love....Neil, (musically speaking of course!)
I can always remember her reaction on her first hearing that beautiful haunting sound of Neil's voice as it shrilled out of my car cassette player out front of her folks house..She looked across into my eyes and with a look of puzzlement she exclaimed,....
"WHAT'S THIS SH*#T?..sounds like an alley cat on heat!"... Well,you could of cut the atmosphere with a Knife!
Nevertheless, I married her and we've been a couple for 35yrs now.. Co existing in a love /hate relationship! lol
Funny how some people just don't get it!(although she loves the Dreamin' Man album)
Nostalgic doc
Neil seems to permeate many relationships. THE first request my wife made of me on our second date while playing cards after I made us a nice steak dinner as we were listening to a little fab four....'Got any Southern man?"!! I about flipped and landed on the biggest smile of my life. Could she REALLY be into it too? WOW I thought, 20 years and 2 kids later, still happening. She also likes to break my stones with the story about how Harvest Moon was cranked in the hospital room as she 'labored' out our first child. What was I thinking?! I was thinking that lamaz music puts me to sleep. It's all a love story anyhow.
That is such a sweet story. It must be February Neil Young Month!
There are too many people in the world unable to find words expressing how deep their feelings go for their loved ones. How sad it must be for anyone to never find that one tangent to connect to another individual.
All too often they are preyed upon by selfish people looking to fill their own selfish & immediate desires.
Sh*ttyHorse, your children will embrace your music because they see how it makes you happy and they want to connect to that happiness.
Music is forever one of those things that influence our children in a good way just like Neil says in one of his songs, "Pick that baby up right off the ground...."
What he means is "seize the moment" which is exactly what Matthew did for Melinda Sue.
This is wonderful. I really love when these stories come out. It's true, the whys and wherefores of digging Neil, or being obsessed with Neil, or just casually thinking Neil is totally amazing... on one hand I agree with anon 2:43... are sometimes totally inexplicable and can't be defined... but at the same time it's always a lot of fun to try to explain these things and share them with each other.
A friend recently remarked to me that everyone's reason for liking something as profound and artistic as Neil (or any number of other great artists) are all different on these subtle levels.
Love does make the world go 'round, and Neil's music is about love in an overarching sense. The story he's been telling all these years probably boils down to love when it's all said and done.
But again, we might all read different things into it and come out with different ideas, feelings, conclusions.
Nice post Thrasher, I very much enjoy these warm-hearted stories.
My wife hates Neil Young. I hate her!
Only joking, but its true she can't understand my commitment to Neil Young's music. She says he is a capitalist hippy who financially exploits his fans. I don't mind giving my hard earned money, although I have to admit I have not exactly worn out the grooves of fork in the road. But Neils fantastic..... A song for every mood and every experience. A moral compass and spiritual guidance
Show Me The Way I May Follow You Someday..................
That durn capitalist argument...
If Neil was a capitalist hippie who exploits his fans (and I've heard this argument before), then he would be making more commercial albums and be more prominent on the charts, wouldn't ya think?
Rather than writing weird art rock albums about electric cars, and 9 minute long psychedelic grunge songs and whatnot?
We'd be up to Harvest 5 by now, I'd think.
Oh, I forgot to say...
Congratulations Shitty! ,on the birth of your first child!
..."No one can conceive of the pleasure in your smile!"
Incidentally, their is an infant milk formula that has Neil injected straight in...its under the brand..."Stay Young"
The only side effect my kids (3) had from drinking it, was the development of rather high pitched voices and the urge to continually wanting to wear flannelette and torn jeans!
luv doc
that 'Stay Young' is good medicine doc, prescribe for all your pateints.
My honey, while huge on Neil, will not, can not, and whatnot, listen to any Bob Dylan. Of course, an intrumental of his (which are few if any) she could like. It's all the voice of (un)reason. So there you have it. It's a crazy mixed up world.
These stories are a riot. There is obviously something in Neil that people react to.
What a great story, so honest and real. I was on the edge of my seat, wondering how and when you were going to blurt it out, Matthew! Nice to see two people “Take a chance on love”, and have it happen with Neil’s music as a backdrop. Very beautiful. When I first read this thread, I thought you were putting it out there for people to tell their own stories, and immediately wrote my own version of a crucial period of my life, and how it all became tied up with Neil’s music. After rereading what you wrote, I’m not sure that’s what you meant, but here goes anyhow.
"Only Love Can Break Your Heart" was the one that got me. My parents were in the midst of a divorce, and the house I loved was being put on the market. I was just coming of age, and about to start high school. My father was mostly out of town, and my mother for understandable reasons was out of reach. Within a year my Dad was dead. A turbulent time, my world really was “falling apart”.
I didn't know who Neil Young was until the day I was walking down the hallway outside my sister's bedroom, and first heard that unmistakable voice. She had "After The Gold Rush" on the record player, and I just sat down and listened without saying a word. It was all over but the shouting, I was hooked. The LP was everything- acoustic, electric, melodic, evocative, shot through with imagery, poignant, strident- you name it. It was raw, immediate, real. Maybe more than anything, it was honest and forthright, uncompromising- this is who I am and what I do, and I want the whole world to know it. It became a part of me, I became a part of it, and there was no getting away from it. Some alchemy had taken place. The voice, the feeling, the directness, I could imagine that he was singing directly to me, even though I knew he wasn’t. To this day through all the music that has followed, I can still imagine that.
AM radio was still at the forefront in Detroit, only the lucky few were there when underground FM was happening. But still and all, there was the voice that I had found singing "Only Love Can Break Your Heart” (“over and over”!). It stood out from all the rest, like a “ruby in a black man’s ear”. It was the first song I’d ever heard that found me just where I was: "Someone should call him, and see if he can come out. Try to lose the down that he's found". I didn't fully realize it then, but that was my truth. I was alone in the world, and someone knew it. Someone was singing about me, someone who understood.
Next thing I know, "Heart Of Gold" hits the charts, and I’m dragging my friends off to Cobo Hall in downtown Detroit to see Neil and the Stray Gators, and it’s off to the races, lo these forty years, and thirty some concerts later. "After The Gold Rush" and “Only Love Can Break Your Heart” was just the start. Since then, Neil Young has been the guy to speak the things I didn’t know were there to be spoken, or give voice to the things I did know, but couldn’t speak about coherently. Neil Young was the first guy I ever heard be vulnerable, and self deprecating, the first guy to speak about things that in my macho world guys just didn’t speak about. And the music just kept coming. In the end, Neil has been an example: say what you mean, mean what you say, and do it with your own voice, in your own unique way. Even right now, at this latter stage of my life, in the midst of reinventing myself, I am being inspired yet again by the words of Neil Young, speaking directly to me: “Just do what you want to do. Don’t listen to anyone else.” Sorry to blather, just my attempt at trying to define the essence of Neil’s music for me.
Greg M (A Friend Of Yours)
What a great story, so honest and real. I was on the edge of my seat, wondering how and when you were going to blurt it out, Matthew! Nice to see two people “Take a chance on love”, and have it happen with Neil’s music as a backdrop. Very beautiful. When I first read this thread, I thought you were putting it out there for people to tell their own stories, and immediately wrote my own version of a crucial period of my life, and how it all became tied up with Neil’s music. After rereading what you wrote, I’m not sure that’s what you meant, but here goes anyhow.
"Only Love Can Break Your Heart" was the one that got me. My parents were in the midst of a divorce, and the house I loved was being put on the market. I was just coming of age, and about to start high school. My father was mostly out of town, and my mother for understandable reasons was out of reach. Within a year my Dad was dead. A turbulent time, my world really was “falling apart”.
I didn't know who Neil Young was until the day I was walking down the hallway outside my sister's bedroom, and first heard that unmistakable voice. She had "After The Gold Rush" on the record player, and I just sat down and listened without saying a word. It was all over but the shouting, I was hooked. The LP was everything- acoustic, electric, melodic, evocative, shot through with imagery, poignant, strident- you name it. It was raw, immediate, real. Maybe more than anything, it was honest and forthright, uncompromising- this is who I am and what I do, and I want the whole world to know it. It became a part of me, I became a part of it, and there was no getting away from it. Some alchemy had taken place. The voice, the feeling, the directness, I could imagine that he was singing directly to me, even though I knew he wasn’t. To this day through all the music that has followed, I can still imagine that.
AM radio was still at the forefront in Detroit, only the lucky few were there when underground FM was happening. But still and all, there was the voice that I had found singing "Only Love Can Break Your Heart” (“over and over”!). It stood out from all the rest, like a “ruby in a black man’s ear”. It was the first song I’d ever heard that found me just where I was: "Someone should call him, and see if he can come out. Try to lose the down that he's found". I didn't fully realize it then, but that was my truth. I was alone in the world, and someone knew it. Someone was singing about me, someone who understood.
Next thing I know, "Heart Of Gold" hits the charts, and I’m dragging my friends off to Cobo Hall in downtown Detroit to see Neil and the Stray Gators, and it’s off to the races, lo these forty years, and thirty some concerts later. "After The Gold Rush" and “Only Love Can Break Your Heart” was just the start. Since then, Neil Young has been the guy to speak the things I didn’t know were there to be spoken, or give voice to the things I did know, but couldn’t speak about coherently. Neil Young was the first guy I ever heard be vulnerable, and self deprecating, the first guy to speak about things that in my macho world guys just didn’t speak about. And the music just kept coming. In the end, Neil has been an example: say what you mean, mean what you say, and do it with your own voice, in your own unique way. Even right now, at this latter stage of my life, in the midst of reinventing myself, I am being inspired yet again by the words of Neil Young, speaking directly to me: “Just do what you want to do. Don’t listen to anyone else.” Sorry to blather, just my attempt at trying to define the essence of Neil’s music for me.
Greg M (A Friend Of Yours)
Sorry about that, there was a message saying the word verification didn't work. Thrash, can you delete the duplicate?
Greg M
Greg, there is something special about being a Neil Young fan..
I love that story..like all the others.
There is always that ONE song of Neil's that just grabs your heartstrings and takes you to that place in time, that memory, that frozen moment that you want to linger forever..
For Liza (and many others) it was Harvest Moon....for me, well, it was playin "Old Man" at my father's funeral.."Only love can break your heart" is yours..
I call them "healing" songs.
As we grow old with Neil and experience life's hurdles, it's great to know that so many people are touched by "The hand of Neil"
Keep on bloggin in the T world
Luv doc (a friend of yours)
Neil is the sound track to many peoples lives. He cuts clean through on an emotional level
I think it was that high tenor falsetto like he got kicked in his b&lls too many times as a young kid and needed some loving ...
(I'm snowed in giddy from cabin fever.)
Greg M (A Friend of Yours), How ironic that I,myself, hail from the Detroit area and attended that Stray Gator concert at Cobo in '73 and haven't missed one of his shows since then. From Cobo Hall to The Fox, PineKnob, MeadowBrook ( International Harvestors) not to mention a few treks out of state as well.Another ironic coincidence is that I was turned onto Neil by my sister as well. In my case it was Everybody Knows This Is Nowhere in '69. Of course, in those days we had WABX,WKNRFM,CJOM from Windsor,and WXYZFM all of whom played Neil in heavy rotation. Ah, the 'Days That Used To Be'!
Big Chief, that is ironic. I wish I had been a few years older and been listening to what you were listening to. I was still tethered to my transistor radio and CKLW! That '73 concert was the first concert I ever saw, and like you I never missed another one until I moved out of town in '08.
Yeah, the days that used to be.
Greg M (A Friend Of Yours)
Thanks Doc....yeah I'm loving being a Dad.... it's awesome. I think Neil has played a role in just about every (important) relationship in my life. With that amount of music to love how could it not? My Wife appreciates Neil but shakes her head at my fascination and devotion although SHE actually picked "Silver and Gold" as our first dance at our wedding, and I've dragged her to many a Neil concert- four times to Greendale alone! She's a saint....my wife. I grew up on Neil and I don't foresee a day when I wont be such a Neil-Head, and I'm thankful for that. Like I said I don't understand how everyone doesn't love the man (but more tickets for us I guess) because being a Neil fan is a great thing- like what was said in Shakey when trying to describe working for Neil- its not always easy- easy isn't part of job but its very rewarding. I think as fans we can relate to that because Neil still confounds us or else we wouldn't religiously read and write and debate about the man on Thrasher's Wheat. Sometimes we have a hard time understanding what he's doing- songs, albums, political stances, ticket prices, etc. etc. but at times and generally over all we get it and we love it and we feel rewarded. I'm not sure even dead-heads feel as rewarded for their devotion as we Neil fans do. We are definitely a strange breed, cut from a different cloth- and its our loved ones who put up with us and still love us back. It's a beautiful thing.
Whoa, although I've never met any of you guys..we definitely share a common bond..Neil.
Although we come from all sides of the planet and our personalities and lives are possibly so diverse, we obviously share this wonderful love of Neil, yeah.. it might not always be acrimonious..but hey, what relationship is!
Although Thrash and I are probably chalk and cheese. I do sincerely thank him for giving me the oppportunity to liaise, (sometimes), with so many beautiful people out there.
Like all relationships, they require work..but it's always fun to agree to disagree ..coz making up is half the fun!
I luv you guys..my other "family"
Sorry I've got to go..I think I'm going to cry! and I've got another patient to see!
Luv doc
ShittyHorse, just a comment on "My Wife appreciates Neil but shakes her head at my fascination and devotion although SHE actually picked "Silver and Gold" as our first dance at our wedding, and I've dragged her to many a Neil concert- four times to Greendale alone"
The record Silver and Gold came out right after meeting my wife, and we played it over and over -though I still not rank it as one of his 'objective' best. I do not remember if the song "Silver and Gold" was our first dance at our weeding (How could I forget?), but I am sure that we played it. So Silver and Gold (both the song and the record) has a very special place in my mind.
-The Loner
Doc, it always amuses me to imagine you blogging away on TW in between patients!
Reading all these beautiful, honest stories is so touching. There`s something very special about Neil`s music and I think that`s because HE is so honest with us. It feels personal - he`s singing exactly what he feels and believes in at that moment and if you really listen it goes straight to your heart and stays there. Listening to Neil always feels to me like a piece of a jigsaw puzzle clicking into place in my heart and soul.
I loved Neil from the early days but my husband didn`t get him at all. After my husband sadly passed away 3 yrs ago, listening to Neil was the only thing that got me through some of those difficult days. Neil is a healer to me.
luv Jill
Just like to put my opinion regarding neil.I grew up in liverpool england the soundtrack to the world was the beatles,then one sad day in 1980 the world was robbed of the great john lennon,i never realized there would be another artist who could move my soul on all levels a man who it seems was planted on this planet to give so much,then i discovered mr neil young.I too have a girl who thinks being so much of a neil fan is unhealthy,but i think most females are cranky anyway!except my little ole mother who thinks neil is fantastic!
Sh*ttyHorse, Congrats on becoming a dad!! Cool that you plan to pass on Neil to the next generation ... I get a huge kick out of hearing my six year old daughter running through the house singing, "don't be denied, don't be denied, don't be denied, don't be denied" ...
Greg M, Thanks for sharing your story, its deeply moving, and made me think of Neil's own story when he sings:
When I was a young boy, My mama said to me Your daddy's leavin' home today, I think he's gone to stay. We packed up all our bags And drove out to Winnipeg.
I also feel like Neil wrote the song track to my childhood (and the rest of my life since) ... some of the deepest connections came from all his melancholy songs (is it the new Sugar Mountain leg where at one point he says something like, "all my songs are so down"...) which seem to be great medicine during tough emotional times ... I also remember being a kid in summer camp in the late 70s singing "Comes a Time" around a campfire right after it came out ... and Sugar Mountain and I am a Child and Goldrush, ect ... amazing memories and what can I say ... I'm just grateful to have been on this journey and tuned in to Neil's station all these years ...
Dan
Either you like him or you don't. I have given up explaining and defending my attraction to, and obsession with, Neil.
His music has gotten me through my adult life and for that I am grateful. He has inspired my guitar-playing and singing like no other artist.
I still remember 3 friends in 1969 playing EKTIN and saying "Rick, you are going to love this guy." And so it was. And so it still is to this day...
Rick A.
All these are the sort of posts/topics that you love to read...everyone has a story to tell and what an appropriate forum and subject to do it on.... NEIL and his magic touch...He brings out everyone's honesty and emotion like no other..I love these stories from the heart... keep 'm coming!
luv doc
Reflections on Grammy Weekend
Joel Bernstein devotes 20 years of his life on the Archives, and not even a mention by NY upon receiving the Grammy? Disappointing.
Good point. Is that you, Joel?
It's really all about the packaging when it comes to the Grammys afterall, isn't it?
I thought the better comparison (about the Grammy) was it was like "Einstein winning an award for best mustache."
Thanks for the recognition, Thrash. Even if I do get a bit over the top.
I think Mother Nature says it quite succinctly: The Grammys are all about packaging.
So at least Neil won for actual packaging, rather than packaging disguised as music.
Neil's music ain't packaging.
It's soulful, heart-felt art for the sake of some existential profoundness that keeps welling out of him.
Your average person in society doesn't really understand that. Unless I'm not giving people enough credit, and am being over-pessimistic, which I suppose is possible.
I mean, just the fact that people don't want to hear something they haven't heard before at concerts, and that people walk out in anger because NEW music is being played.
It's a sad state of affairs, but Neil really rises above it, and always has.
Griping about the Grammys is all well and fine - and I agree that by and large they reward what's popular instead of what's artistically deserving, or creative or "dangerous" - but if people are going to make blanket condemnations about the Grammys being a joke, what does that say about Dylan's "Time Out of Mind" winning Album of the Year? Or the awards someone like Lucinda Williams has won. Steve Earle won a Grammy this year.
Let's not be so small that we call out the referees when our team loses, and applaud them when our team wins.
We want the mainstream world to recognize our hero, but if they did that consistently, you can bet many would then be saying he's too mainstream.
There's ebb and flow. Sometimes the ocean washes up crap; sometimes it washes up treasure. Roll with it.
Oh, I like that one, ebb and flow, Jimbo...
What is clear is that many musicians are awarded grammys for not making waves politically. Lucinda, Dylan, and Emmylou's stuff is pretty subdued compared to what Neil's been singing for the last few decades.
He was blacklisted by a lot of excutives there because of personal politics or should I say because of his anti-political views.
They were punishing him for his associations with certain people and because he told them where they could stick their advice...
He never got a Grammy for his early work because he was being blackballed. He was the musician who wasn't suppose to succeed.
If the Grammys are a load of guff, why do we care whether our guy wins one or not?
Neil doesn't have any trouble selling records or getting people along to his gigs. He gets invited to perform on The Tonight Show and the star-studded Haiti relief thing, he headlines one of the biggest music festivals on the planet (Glastonbury) at the age of 63, and some of the biggest names in rock/pop/country music have just had a love-in for him in LA as part of Grammy weekend.
I think that's probably enough recognition for Neil - why isn't it for everyone else?
Maybe it matters because we expect people to be fair. Maybe our ideals are higher. Certainly what we expect and what happens are two different things but we just hope that when they do pick the "best" it's for all the right reasons.
Huge Neil fan here, but there's more than enough so-called travesty's to go around: The Who Led Zepplin Queen Grateful Dead The Doors Bob Marley Beach Boys Janis Joplin Diana Ross Jackson 5 Lynyrd Skynyrd
But they also get it right a lot of times too and one has to put the times and events in context at the moment, not in hindsight.
Most would say that Santana's brilliant album in 1999 deserved the grammy awards it received. (Me for one).
Heck as a comparative example of these awards shows look at what the Academy did with a song for a movie a few years back called Philadelphia story.
Think what you will, be subjective as you choose, but even this HUGE NEIL YOUNG FAN had to begrudgingly give Bruce the nod over Neil on his song, although I find both of them brilliant in their own way.
It's so hard to make love pay When you're on the losing end
I don't think Neil cares all that much about Awards or rewards...or sales or accolades...That's one of the things I admire about him...but I do kinda feel bad that JB was not mentioned...
asg
I have to say that this blog is really making me think. Thrasher, you and several posts have made some incredible points. Dan’s comments sum up pretty well what I would have said myself on the subject, and he is undeniably on the mark, but Matt really takes it to another level. There’s a lot of ways of saying it I guess. When I used to do a lot of karaoke there were always contests, and winning was very rarely about who sang the best, it was about who was the most popular. I also remember reading about jury pools, and a statement made that being picked for a jury is not something to be proud of. There are baseball players who are not in the Hall Of Fame because they treated the sports writers like shit. The bible says, “Don’t cast your pearls before swine”. I don’t know, would we really want Neil to thrive in the environment of the Grammies? Was that ever going to be possible? What would it mean if Neil had been winning Grammies all along? Also, Jimbo’s comment is very telling: “We want the mainstream world to recognize our hero, but if they did that consistently, you can bet many would then be saying he's too mainstream.” In the end, there’s probably no way to win, especially when we’re talking about subjective standards, and I suppose, we should consider that unlike a lot of great artists, Neil didn’t have to be dead to receive a modicum of acceptance.
But it does beg the question, doesn’t it? If even a broken clock is right twice a day, and there are always artists who deservedly win Grammies, how is it possible Neil has never won a Grammy for his music? Politics? Not lining up on the right side of Hollywood culture? Have certain powerbrokers never been able to separate out Neil the person from Neil the persona adopted to make a point, e.g. Neil as Reaganite? (Was it Broken Arrow, or Mirrorball?- I think Broken Arrow) As much as I think Broken Arrow is a great record, I remember being surprised that it was nominated for a Grammy, that is until I remembered that the previous year Neil’s song Philadelphia, clearly of a caliber to win any kind of award you could think of, lost out to Streets Of Philadelphia. Did Neil get it right this time? Did a bone get tossed to acknowledge a politically correct stance (IMO it was the right stance PC or no), or was it some kind of make up call? In this context, I’m intrigued by comments about Neil being blackballed, (“They were punishing him for his associations with certain people and because he told them where they could stick their advice...” What does this mean exactly?). I’ve always had my conjectures about why Neil has not been more embraced by the music industry, but Thrasher, this sounds like some really good grist for the mill. Could you consider a future blog around the subject of exactly why Neil has been snubbed by the music business to the extent that he has? It might be a can of worms better left unopened, and it may also open up a whole new avenue for conspiracy theory, and how could anything really be verified beyond conjecture, but… could keep us going for several days, Thrash.
O.K., o.k., I’m losing my head. I think probably the best advice to follow is a combination of points made by Thrasher, Dan, Jimbo, and some others that it is what it is, accept what has transcended the whole mess for what it is and, ultimately, revel in what may be the most succinct statement Neil ever uttered: “What I do and what makes money are two different things”- and by extension then, who Neil is and what is popular are two different things. Let’s just move on with our lives with the knowledge that the world is full of injustice, life isn’t fair, but that everything will come out in the wash.
Still, knowing that it is ultimately unimportant and someday I’ll probably get over it, but getting back to your original point about people like me who still have a hard time reconciling the whole credit thing, damn it all Thrasher, why am I still pissed that Neil doesn’t get more credit?!
Greg M (A Friend Of Yours)
Greg,
Good comment. Glad we're making you think.
I agree, this is a fascinating topic which has no beginning or end.
I think many Neil fans have long since reconciled his standing in music history.
What matters is that we get it and we go to see his shows. We hear the magic that doesn't make it to our shiny little discs. We're richer for it and all else the poorer.
We've been down this road many times. Although, this weekend perfectly crystallizes the situation. As we blogged, the Grammy omission has been pointed out by many year after year.
What will be strange though is that now folks will say hey Neil has a grammy so that's one more to scratch from the list. I think we're now down to 2 outrages: . Led Zeppelin and The Who haven't been honored.
Lastly -- and I've observed as well as others -- I think the Musicares award is WAY bigger than the Grammy.
That lineup that paid tribute really says it all.
Award Shows are more about how the PR/Management Departments are doing, not so much about the Music. Witness how so very often the Winners fall by the way side rather quickly after winning. If it were about Quality there would be no discussion at all...it's about "did you see what she wore?...or didn't for that matter", "Can you believe how bad she sang?". Awards are for the Fluff...an Artist continues with or without them. Keep showin' em Neil !!
LIVE RUST
Neil may not have won a Grammy but who cares? Look at the diversity of the artists that came to pay their respects to the music he's made and the way he's carried himself in this world by giving back at the Musiccares event. Every great artist I care about respects him, thats all I care about. Thats vaildation to me and if a few fans of those artists check him out after seeing their icons at his event I'm sure they'll stick around and give Neil a fair shot vs the trend following Grammy buying public..
All of these artists: The Who, Led Zepplin, Queen, Grateful Dead, The Doors, Bob Marley, Beach Boys, Janis Joplin, Diana Ross, Jackson 5 and Lynyrd Skynyrd are not making new music right now. Neil is, lets rejoice in that and see that his popularity like his musical output burns slower but last longer than most artists these days and of the past.
Grammy Awards HA! All you need to know is Neil has never won a (music) Grammy despite the incredible quality, variety, and quantity of his music, while those Neil-impersonators America got one in their first year (Best New Neil Impersonator, I believe). So take it all with a grain of salt--you KNOW Neil does. Can't you just imagine what he was thinking, with his little smirk/chuckle: "what a bunch of frickin' idots".
Speaking of which, has Jimmy the Biographer weighed in on all this Neilvana? I'm sure he's disgusted.
Anomymous (beacause Google actually does evil).
joel bernstein doesn't care about a grammy mention. he's a fanboy who is in love with neil young, and he's got the perfect job.
The perfect irony.....Neil wins one for the packaging. The complete antithesis of his being. Critical acclaim from the blowhards of corporate music americana. Awesome.
I'm over the Grammy's already. What I want to know is where is "Toast"? February would be a good time to release it before the Trunk Show DVD and the new album get in the way and ensure it gets released a day or so before Christmas with close to zero sales - witness the superb "Dreamin' Man". Its all in the timing
Landing on Water
I think NY would just be thinking 'It's plowing time again'. Seems to be a regular end of the decade thing for the general public to be interested in NY. I'm just looking forward to the ride between now and 2019.
That's Thrasher for opening a dialog about the Grammy Awards and such.
Everyone on the NYA team is overjoyed and proud of the Grammy handed out on Sunday. It's great to see Gary and Jenice recognized and acknowledged by the NARAS.
Overall what comes to mind in this discussion thread are some wise words from David St. Hubbins of the legendary group Spinal Tap. When asked, "what's wrong with the Music Industry?" He replied, "Two things: the Music and the Industry."
-Archives Guy
Well put AG. Of course any Neil fan is pleased about the recognition, finally. But the long awaited corination of one man's efforts and oustanding contribution to the landscape of Rock and Roll can not pass without a little screatching feedback...aimed at the 'institution'.
All I know is Neil chopped his side burns off - What musical adventure are we in for now. Trans 2 - Beautiful!!!
Neil said in his speech that he had started a new record. This is reward enough for me. Go Neil Go.
Right, Thrasher. The real thing was all the bands honoring Neil.This winter I was blown away from Wilco at Il Conservatorio di Milano.They play on another planet.It's the better tribute to Neil. On Joel Bernstein...We all know that The Archives are a work group.Neil put the songs, the will and also the money.Elliot Roberts is a great manager, probably one of greatest.Every dedicated fan knows the passion and the precision of Joel Bernstein.Mulligan, Nowland, Hausmann, Sitam are excellent technicians. And we don't forget the producer. Andrea."So Tired"
From Bob Lefsetz mailbag
Subject: Re: Broken Arrow
Hi Bob,
I was the 2nd engineer on Stills-Young Long May You Run. I sometimes got to set up rough mixes and record harmony vocals with all four of the guys around one mic in omni. The project started out as Neil and Stephen, morphed into all four of the guys, then 30 days later Stephen and Neil decided to go back to the original plan and do a "duet." I was ordered to erase any vocals that had David and Graham on them.
Don Gehman and I spent hundreds, maybe thousands of hours in Criteria's studio B on that record. And if memory serves correctly, we used 118 reels of 2" tape and many more reels of _" as we always had to have tape rolling in case somebody had an inspiration we wanted to capture.
A couple years later I worked with Neil as the first engineer on Comes a Time and songs that ended up on several of his records that followed. It was typically just Neil, myself, and my trusty assistant Paul working somewhat normal hours six days a week. I got to know Neil well during those months together.
He's special. He's unlike anybody else I've ever known -- part clown (in a subtle, sardonic, Jack Nicholson-esque way), part genius, and very much his own person. He used to joke that he and Bob Dylan share a love of "audio veritae," and would rarely let me use a limiter or any EQ on the basic tracks. A real challenge for a young engineer, but it elevated my game and really made me rely on good mic placement.
Neil just plain didn't care if his songs were money-makers. He did however care that the stories he told made people feel something. He would always choose performances that captured the feeling rather than nailing notes or perfect timing on the head.
He would often look through the glass, raise an eyebrow and ask, "How'd that one feel?" Working with him and learning the value of the performance and feel have always served me well. Today's songwriters, artists and producers would be wise to follow Neil's example.
Warm regards, Michael Laskow
My 2 cents on the Grammys. Elvis Costello losing best new artist to Taste of Honey.
Taste of hot chicks, more like. Come'on : it's about resonating with the zeitgiest of the time. Artists tend to lead, entertainers reflect, and sometimes, they are one and the same.
The state of the art technology, along with the content, and package hit the nail squarely on the head.
If Neil didn't care about the packaging for the material for the Archives, he wouldn't have been as hands-on as so many reports have suggested.
It's silly to think that Neil, or anyone for that matter, is immune to affirmation. The affirmation resonates more when it's someone you respect (say Dylan covers Old Man, McCartney sharing a stage).
The Archives team gave blood, sweat and tears over this project and suggest, after all this time that the Grammy holds no meaning is rather a cruel irony.
I say, Congratulations Team, enjoy! You deserve it.
Andrea1bianco, you make a good point, Elliot Roberts is an unsung hero who has supported Neil’s artistic vision and stick handled his way around the music business these last forty years.
Thanks AG, Chicago, Andrea, Greg and everyone else!
Great comments.
twist & shout
Michael,Wow! what an interesting and fruitful time in your life it must have been! What seems to be the one insight that comes out of people that have "been close" to Neil in their lives for what ever reason, is just how much Neil is true to himself. Whatever project he takes on, whether it be for musical or humanitarian causes, he does so with a passion and integrity that is second to none.No one can deny his diligence and focus on whatever project/muse he's in to..and you either board the Neil train or sit at the station and wait. I'm sure you would have many other reflections of the Neil, we fans might not know about..his little quirks that could inspire or irritate..I don't think they're would be ever a dull moment with Neil..maybe frustrating or baffling sometimes..but never dull1 it was interesting reading your comment..thanks for that little insight.
doc
Michael, Thanks for sharing that little bit of history. It certainly says a lot more about Neil's character and dedication as an artist, musician, and storyteller than all the biographies and garbage people have shared about their experiences with Neil.
Too often people forget that a lot of what they hear is very manufactured and contrived which is very clear in a lot of recordings.
What draws most people to Neil I think has always been this purity he had about recording. The way he sounds in concert is exactly the way he sounded on the albums...
Oh Hiya Doc! Whazzup?
(((Hugs)))
Neil & Crazy Horse is next. Time for some good old fashioned Rock & Roll enough of this bull. Cant wait.
Archives Guy,
Gotta love the irony, too, about what our prophetic songbird sang in "Sex Kills."
I pulled up behind a Cadillac; We were waiting for the light; And I took a look at his license plate- It said, "Just Ice."
Is justice just ice? Governed by greed and lust? Just the strong doing what they can And the weak suffering what they must?
And the gas leaks And the oil spills And sex sells everything And sex kills ... Sex kills ...
Doctors' pills give you brand new ills And the bills bury you like an avalanche And lawyers haven't been this popular Since Robespierre slaughtered half of France! And Indian chiefs with their old beliefs know The balance is undone-crazy ions- You can feel it out in traffic; Everyone hates everyone! And the gas leaks And the oil spills And sex sells everything And sex kills ... Sex kills ...
All these jackoffs at the office The rapist in the pool Oh and the tragedies in the nurseries- Little kids packin' guns to school The ulcerated ozone These tumors of the skin- This hostile sun beating down on This massive mess we're in! And the gas leaks And the oil spills And sex sells everything And sex kills ... Sex kills ... Sex kills ... Sex kills ... Sex kills ...
Oh here's the link to the video where Neil & Pegi are talking about being honored for not ever being a grammy winner ....
http://www.thenewsroom.com/details/3999210
Hopefully my rant against the Grammys was not construed as a slight against the talented folks who made the magnificant artwork and structure of the Archives packaging ... indeed that aspect of the Archives was at the highest level no doubt those efforts deserved a Grammy. The rant was focused on the rest of Neil's accomplishments and how they've been overlooked over such a long period of time. That said, despite the fact that I'm not familiar with all the Grammy categories, we could easily rant about how the Archives and all its musical, technical, and production excellence was somehow overlooked ... its a symptom of the same sickness for sure ... the Archives in so many ways is a visionary masterpiece that is likely to set the standard for exhibiting canons of future recording artists and its a shame, as the talented group who have slaved for years to help make this masterpiece also deserve to get recognized. Its one thing to snub Neil year after year, he probably could care less (althought that doesn't make it alright), but the folks around him have families, mouths to feed, and careers to advance in, and hopefully this is the begininnig of these exceptionaly talented people receiving their just recognition. That said, I hope they all know the fans appreciate them dearly.
Dan
http://www.chartattack.com/news/79126/seven-neil-young-albums-that-should-have-won-grammys
great perspective Mr. Archives Guy - congratulations all around and it IS a helluva package -
Michael - AWESOME post - as a former fellow traveller, I LOVED the bit about limiters and EQ and stepping up the miking game cause you have to have it right from the start - I'll be thinking of y'all next time I spin that disc
old sound man
Dan, I am so right behind you in line. I don't understand what the fascination has been with Lady Gaga or Madonna. These women market themselves like the second coming and what are they really? Ethel Merman in Marilyn Monroe's body at your neighborhood burlesque show in it's heyday.
Instead of the Grammy's there should be special Tony for musical performance in music video or something because there's no business like show business! (And you gotta have a gimmick if you want to get ahead...)
Oh yes, Soundguy, what a helluva package especially when you open the file drawer to find vintage Neil in a barn playing "Alabama." (Not that he should have gotten an Grammy for Harvest, After the Gold Rush, Tonight's the Night, or Ambulanc Blues ....)
I find it interesting how passionate we NY fans are. It seems to me that Neil has always been clear about his perspective on awards for music. He has stated many times that he feels that there is no Best in music. He also has said that he feels he's not grammy materiel. It seems to me that Neil not winning for his music is more important to the fans than it is to him. I believe what makes us all fans of Neil's music is his passion for the artistic muse, and it's this passion that draws us closer to him as an artist. Awards don't define an artists worth anyway; only time will tell what music will endure. I believe future generations will be listening to Neil Young and be in awe of the quality of his creative output.
All this focus on the Grammys and NOBODY gives a thumbs up to "Potato Hole" winning best pop-instrumental album?
We're not begrudging Booker or Bela. We get it. We get why Neil was shunned from the Grammy Awards all these years. And we also get that the Grammy Award recognition is not important to Neil.
But, it just looks pretty weird to a lot of us who watched this guy develop his craft and that after 40 plus years he gets what?
Was it because he stood up Johnny Carson? Was it because he stood up his bandmates? Was it because he stood up a few record companies?
This guy pissed a lot of people off early on and they made him pay by not giving him the awards he so justly deserved.
Okay, old wounds heel and we move on. But there are a lot of us who remember ...
Recently I posted a comment over my frustration of the fact that those artists who were so obviously influenced by Neil failed to acknowledge him in interviews. Well, the events that transpired this weekend seems to have vindicated our hero to a degree that, in many ways, he was able to be the topic of many grammy related discussions through out the media with his integrity intact, to say the least. To be the recipiant of the 'Musicares Award' had far more meaning than any music related award at this stage of his career.The roster of artists who came to express their admiration for him was more heartfelt and sincere than anything that set foot on the stage on Sunday night. To those who felt that Joel Bernstein was snubbed for not being acknowledged for the Archives project, the award itself was for 'packaging design & artwork'. It was Jenice and Garys moment to shine as Neil's presence honored their contribution to the success of the project. What class! I'm certain that he appreciates Joel's contributions as well as the dozens, if not hundreds of others who contributed to the success of the 'Archives'.As I searched the web for grammy related items this week,I was amazed to find all of the support for Neil from fans and non-fans alike in regards to the fact that inspite of all of his musical accomplishments in nearly half of a century,he remains 'grammy-less'! Well, I don't know about you folks, but somehow if thats o.k. with Neil, it's o.k. with me ... I'm not quite ready yet to share him with the likes of Lady GaGa or, bless her heart, Tayler Swift!
Neil Young is the man! That's all that matters. Who gives a shit if he won or didn't win a Grammy. Any recognition Neil and his team, musicians, etc, get is always going to be well deserved but we all know (not just believe)that this doesn't matter to Neil nor has he ever set out on a new album thinking "gee, these songs will win me a Grammy for sure, this time" Come on, whats important to us as fans and whats important to Neil is that the songs keep coming- plain and simple. If the songs don't come then the music's over and frankly, I couldn't even bear the thought of it. Neil gets a night of recognition, that's nice. What this blog should have been is that Neil said he's working on a NEW ALBUM! and has FOUR OR FIVE SONGS WRITTEN! That's important, that's Neil news. Who is Neil playing with? What are these songs about? What will it sound like? Winning awards is not what got Neil to this point and it wont get him to the next. Neil keeps moving, creating and keeping it real- and as he said in his speech; he "hopes to be doing this for a long time to come"- that's the essence of Neil right there! That's why we love him, not awards or gold records or pats on the back from scumbags in suits- its cause Neil keeps going and doing it his way- "anything to keep the songs coming, to follow the muse" And we're fans cause we get to follow him, cause we know he's serious, he's for real and he's still here- doing it his way and as great has he always was.
Rock on Neil!
@ Jack M : "Neil & Crazy Horse is next. Time for some good old fashioned Rock & Roll enough of this bull. Cant wait."
Completely right man. Enough of this recognition. The old damn Horse is the real thing.
Yep guys. I just hope the Horse' flame still burns in Neil's heart. It will burn forever in mine, but who knows for neil ? I just hope to see Ralph, Billy and Pancho again. These guys are the men !
i was watching the trocadero '97 video last night and it struck me...there will be no more neil young and crazy horse. let's face it...neil is an old man now and he does not have the energy to play with the horse anymore. when neil plays with, say, the electric band, he plays with ringers. guys that can handle any song he throws at them. with the horse it's different. neil has to expend a lot of energy just to bring those guys up to his level. and he just does not possess the energy to do that anymore. i think that he knows this. to play with the horse you have to go balls out, and he just does not have that level of energy anymore.
of course i'd love to be proven wrong.
I agree w/ Thrash. The musicares award is much more important than a Grammy.
Hey, why don't we have our own version of a Grammy? We can call it a Neily? Or a Rusty?
It'll be for creativity, emotiveness and staying true to oneself and ones art.
I don't see what the infatuation is with this band although I do understand fan loyalty which sometimes impedes one's judgement.
At best, Frank and Billy are just mediocre musicians. I mean Billy has tried to keep it together making music but what has Frank done recently?
I mean, Frank is a little needy on the guitar, don't you think? And Billy contributed very little to the "sound" of the Horse. I mean there WERE always other musicians in the room and on the stage afterall.
Okay, but you love them. I understand. You get a little nostalgic. But I think Neil made his point when he stepped out on the stage to do "No Hidden Path" and "Spirit Road" recently that he doesn't need to feed into your nostalgia.
It takes instinct and good judgement to back Neil up. As a band, you of evolve together, and I think too much time has lapsed between now and then for Billy or Frank to add to what Neil has already done.
If Neil brings them back, it will be because he has a big heart not because they can add anything to what he created ...
Mother Nature, I think you don't understand the Horse sound. This is a spirit. The Electric Band is unable to bring this kind of thing. It's in the air, I mean the Horse is a living soul, and it's not about technic. The Horse is the definitive band.
Anyway : here's a special link of Neil doin Fallon doin Neil doin Will Smith http://www.swift.fm/edwardaten/song/19577/
@ Mother nature on the run : " Billy contributed very little to the "sound" of the Horse" Oucchhh ! FAIL ! Ah ah ah, you should listen to the bass line of Cowgirl in The Sand, dude... But you're funny.
Congratulations to Jenice and Gary.You both deserve it.Love your work.Hey AG.I know it's off topic but...Speaking of the mighty Tap.Did you happen to get their new cd?It ROCKS!I was actually pleasantly surprised by the remakes of some of their classic songs on there.Thye name of the album is Back From The Dead by the way.Good stuff.Now back to Neil.Is there ANY chance you'd be willing to even hint at what we the fans with the "Greedy Hands" might expect for 2010?Thanks.
Rancho Relaxo
wtf? The Horse... mediocre? how could... why...
(insert 5 minutes of astounded mumbling)
See here now Mr. Nature... The Horse is a spiritual phenomenon that has nothing to do with technical ability.
The have this connection between them. Imagine spokes on a wheel with Neil as the little round part in the middle that the spokes come out of. As it rotates, the most incredible, furious, wondrous, enlightening sound ever emitted out of anything flows out in these enormous waves.
It's right up there with the sound of the Universe rotating.
Mediocre. Fshaw! ;^)
"Cowgirl in the Sand?" Are you talking about the studio recording or live performances over the years? From what I remember, it was Danny who carried the unusual rhythm pattern in the initial recording which set the benchmark all these years. It wasn't Billy Talbot on bass. Anyone can do what Billy did on the recording but only a few people have been able to compliment what Danny did in that song...
Now back to our regularly scheduled program...
Mother Nature, you're funny. Got your Reactor vinyl ? So listen to Shots and you'll know what I call the Billy sound. Listen to The Fillmore East, or New Orleans and She's hot on "Crazy Horse" (1978). Just listen, funny dude. Ah ah I'm laughing. The Horse is "mediocre". I'm sure you're a Joe Satriani or even Yngwie Malmsteen fan.
The reason why Neil can't play with the "HORSE" (i.e., Billy, Ralph, Frank) is because he will go into cardiac arrest from the HOURS and HOURS and HOURS of practice before they got it right.
Now if we had a Crazy Horse & friends reunion with Nils and previous musicians all taking the stage along with all his previous back up vocalists, now that would be grammy award winning material but then Neil would have to pay all those people and then there's this thing called the musician's union and managers and ....
Why do you think Billy and Frank, Neil's former bandmates, were overlooked?
I think Crazy Horse was a classic example of the whole being greater than the sum of the parts. There was a connection between the players that provided the space for Neil to "get gone". That was the magic of Crazy Horse. Why the prolonged absence, and why the doubt as to whether Neil will ever play with them again in any sustained way? It's all pure speculation, but when did that ever stop me or anyone else from jumping in with both feet? I mean, there are only a few possibilities: a) they just don't have the chops anymore, b) there’s friction between some or all of them, c) some or all of CH can’t or don’t want to do it anymore, d) Neil doesn’t have the motivation for whatever reason, e) Neil for whatever reason wants to move on and play with other musicians, and f) CH is like fine china, Neil only breaks them out for special occasions. Just let me know if I’ve left out anything. My suspicion is that CH simply doesn’t have the chops anymore. Think about this, too, just because CH did it before, doesn’t mean they still can. I mean, we could dress up Michael Jordan, Isaiah Thomas, Wilt Chamberlain, Karl Malone and Larry Bird again, but is it going to be anything more than a nostalgia act? But me not being a musician, and knowing nothing of what I’m talking about, I don’t really know, do I? I leave all this, as always, to the discernment of Neil, who does things in his own way, in his own time, for his own reasons. Much as some of my most cherished memories and concert moments involved CH, I can’t really second guess it too much. We all know about Neil’s history of cutting things loose, and then many times coming back to them, most notably Crazy Horse itself. It’s part of what has allowed Neil to move on from one thing to another. Where would CH be if Neil had done only CSNY, or remained a solo act? Where would Neil be if he had confined himself to only CH?
For the time being, I’m content with Neil continuing to produce original material, and hoping that I’m wrong about CH, and that we get to see them again sometime in the future. I will say this, a part of me was definitely disappointed by the absence of CH at Musicares, but another part of me came right back with “I have no idea why they weren’t there, and it’s none of my business anyway”. I leave it up to Neil, and whatever the facts of the situation are, which I remain clueless about.
Greg M (A Friend Of Yours)
yeah, who really knows huh? one thing i'll say about neil young is that he is a strange, strange dude. so the guys in the horse are his "friends", i would assume? at least, how he defines "friends". but i bet he hasn't played with them since their last show in 2004. now, if i had "friends" like the horse i'd be playing/jamming with them all the time. it blows my mind that neil, who is supposed to be possessed of this great muse, can't just get together and jam with his "friends", just for "fun". i think there was a quote in shakey aboot neil not knowing how to have "fun". seems about right to me.
i've been searching for a band for 20 years...if i find them i'm not letting go.
Greg, I think (hope) taht it's f) CH is like fine china, Neil only breaks them out for special occasions. tim
Hey, at least Neil somehow stays above it all in his own way.
Speaking of above it all, the banner ad with Clapton hawking the "Fender Fone" above this page reminds us all its all about the, uh, cash.
Sorry to bite the (slow)hand that brings us this stuff.
You're always so sensible about stuff, Greg. You guys are really nice to put up with my opinions and observations. I was just joking about the reunion really.
I mean Neil's been doing a great job with the balancing act of restoring the old songs while creating new ones so far, right?
All we can really hope for Neil is that he keeps both hands on the wheel, eyes on the road, and he keeps the car moving forward with or without Grammy recognition to fuel his engine.
The old Neil would have used his Grammy award as a hood ornament anyway for one of the Willies.
- Mother Nature on the Run-
As the great Chief Dan George was told...
"You must endeavor to persevere."
After AGs' last comment, I'm wearing a condom 24/7!
How can you even speak about Crazy Horse after Neil's religious experience-like tours the past few years? Billy and Frank could never ever keep up with that energy we saw coming out of Neil or the musicians who toured with him?
What can they bring to the songs or the spirit or electricity that Neil hasn't alredy delivered these past 3 years?
Mash potatoes?
How does one exactly listen to Rocking in the Free World again when you got John Fogerty, Keith Urban, U2, Pearl Jam, Eddie Van Halen chomping at the bit on that one?
I just don't get the infatuation. I get the loyalty but not the infatuation.
How exactly does one re-create the masterpiece that the Horse was?
Hey Anon who wrote: " I will say this, a part of me was definitely disappointed by the absence of CH at Musicares, but another part of me came right back with “I have no idea why they weren’t there, and it’s none of my business anyway”.
The guys from Crazy Horse WERE at MusicCares, right at the same table with Neil's other band mates. All one happy family.
Mother Nature, go listen to Eddie Van Halen and leave the Horse alone. It's a force that's bigger than you, that's not for little girls in summer clothes. Tim
A force bigger than me? Summer clothes?
Like I said, Tim. I understand your loyalty and patronizing but I don't understand the infatuation that perpetuates this myth about the Horse's special power, energy, or spirit. A Neil & Horse tribute tour of re-act-or favorites after people heard what he was cranking out these past few years is delusional. Frank is not that great of a guitarist and neither is Billy let alone carry Neil through the sets he's been playing the past few years.
Mother Heart, it's not about individual technic with the Horse. The whole Horse is greater than the sum of the parts. And I think that without these guys (yes, technically mediocre and so ?) Neil won't find his soulfull electricity. Take for example Fork in the road : there's no life in it, same thing with Living with war. Tim
Maybe what your talking about is the redundance of Neil's chord progression and overall musical themes. Yes, it gets a little tiresome and that's why he needs to keep moving forward. Not backward.
Honestly, I don't think Billy ever had the creative juices to lead Neil beyond the fence if you get my drift. And while Frank offered insight for Neil and such, he was somewhat limited at what he could produce on his own.
These guys just keep playing the same stuff over and over and over. That's all I'm saying.
By the way, Thrasher, thanks for letting us use your thread here about the Horse and their relevancy to Neil's future. I realize I'm in the minority here so I appreciate the level of civility Tim and everyone else has maintained during this discussion.
Mum, I'm starting to get the impression that you think Neil won't be "saddling up" again !
I'm loving this little banter..soughta reminds me of the "Neil versus Bob" debate...
Please don't start on that one! ...otherwise "Mother Nature" ..you WOULD be on the run! lol
luv doc
Hey Doc. If he's saddle'n up the wagon there, he better have something more than "mash potatoes."
"re-act-or up" might be the quintessential Crazy Horse but hardly a main course for a reunion tour.
I agree with Mother nature for Reactor. That's why we need a new Crazy Horse album and tour right now with Billy, Ralph and Frank. Enough of this recognition, "Neil is one of the greatest songwriters" bla bla bla. Of course he is. Keep on fuckin up. Tim (old fashioned raw R&R fan).
Crazy Horse? New material?
Right.
That almost (I said almost) qualifies as an oxymoron.
For last 20 years all they've done are rinky dinky loops and rhyming like:
"Singing like this, that go like this, up and down, and sound like shi&t.
In C or F or F and C, throw in a few suspension keys"
You can say what you want Mother Nature, with Toast, everybody will understand the difference between a nice electric Neil w/ Rick Rosas and Chad Cromwell and the massive power of the Horse. Goin Home. Tim
The Horse is a rusty tractor. It's vintage and it's uh awesome.
Hey guys, and what about the Echoes ? ... I'd like to hear the holy crazy horse too !
Um. Like a rusty tractor?
One that still works, I hope because most the rusty tractors are out to pasture or sitting in my neighbor's backyard.
Are you sure you're not just looking for something to ... uh ... look at?
The Echoes? That's a bar band. Plain and simple. We only wish that Neil would go this route but those days are long, long gone.
That Just inspired me to get out and play "Ragged Glory"..just another one in the path of rediscovering Neil...Raw and uncut with the "horse".
Geez, I can really start to relate to this album.... especially.. "Why do I keep F#*KING UP?" Ya know Mum, you might be right..it just might be too hard to reshoe! lol..but I'd sure love to ride him one more time!!
doc
At 2/05/2010 11:34:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...
Hey Anon who wrote: " 'I will say this, a part of me was definitely disappointed by the absence of CH at Musicares, but another part of me came right back with “I have no idea why they weren’t there, and it’s none of my business anyway'".
"The guys from Crazy Horse WERE at MusicCares, right at the same table with Neil's other band mates. All one happy family."
Really, CH was there? That's awesome, I love being wrong about stuff like this. Makes me feel much better about things, especially what may be increased odds of the horse riding again.
Greg M (A Friend Of Yours)
The rusty tractor still works, year after year, under the rain, the snow, the wind and even the sarcasm. Hold on Crazy Horse (not Magnolia uh !). That what comes after the blues, guys. Tim
Hey,whatever analogy ya wanna use... 'Saddle the horse','ride the rusty tractor'...as long as the bridle fits or there's fields to plough, why not bring'm out?
What's Neil got to lose?..his credibility? I don't think so...
"Back in the days that used to be!"
Yeah bring'm back... in ALL their Ragged glory!!!!
Let's make a "Toast" to the horse!!
doc
You're right Doc !
Making a "toast" is just asking for trouble. These guys start raising cain again, we're gonna read in the morning paper that one of em's found dead hanging by their "you know what" in closet in a hotel called the Shanghai Express.
Poncho, get out of here, I recognized your badass sarcasm !
Having seen Neil Young with different bands, only one band can gel and create such emotional power and energy and that's Crazy Horse. When they hit that groove they transcend all references to the technical. Watching them you're at one with a universal sonic nirvana that's all embracing.
They're Neil's finest rock band in my humble opinion and it seems like too many people see them as an easy target.
Ever since Jimmy McDonough took a pop at them in the Neil Young biography, it seems fair game to knock them.
Give them a bit of slack, could you imagine Zuma with some slick session drummer like Jeff Pecora? Brilliant drummer, but for Neil young, the band has to 'Get It' ie connect / relate/ know where he's coming from / create that groove.
Knock the horse (it seems to be the season) but give them their dues, they 'get it' and they do it for Neil and I suspect a whole lot of fans. They gel like no other, they're the catalyst, Neil''s the spark, together they create the explosive mix.
Long may they gallop!
The longer Neil goes on without the Horse,the more of a nostalgia act they become .. and Neil doesn't do nostalgia. Just ask the Springfield. In the past, Neil would eventually come back to the Horse whenever he felt it was right and they would patiently wait in the pasture until called upon. Is it possible that maybe this time they spoke their of their displeasure of abandonment only to alienate stubborn 'ol Neil and any chance of playing with him again? Neil has proven with his current band that he can do all of the CrazyHorse classics as well as many songs that he could have never performed live in the past with the Horse. As much as I have always loved the horse, even I recognise that they are limited as musicians when you consider Neils vast catalog of songs that he is now able to perform for us with his current band and the lineup he used on the 'Family and Friends' tour. If he did ever tour with the horse again, it would be an act of charity..out of the kindness of his big heart like when he gets together with C.S.N. I gotta hunch the Horse is out to pasture for good this time.
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